An Interview with Desimir Ivanović, Human Resources Coach and Clearing Teacher, Certified Coaching Trainer, 2nd Dan Aikido Master, and Graduated Engineer of Work Organization
Lobisti.rs: Mr. Ivanović, thank you for taking the time to talk to our magazine. You have been dedicated to clearing and coaching for more than three decades. How did your professional journey in this field begin?
Desimir Ivanović: Thank you for inviting me. My professional path to clearing was both natural and unique. It all started in the 1970s when I practiced Aikido, a Japanese martial art. At that time, along with two colleagues, I was among the first Aikido masters in our country. While my colleagues focused on physical education and martial arts, I was drawn to the psychological and philosophical dimensions of Aikido. Unfortunately, due to a shoulder injury, I had to stop active training, which led me to reflect on my next steps. I turned to exploring personal development and interpersonal relationships, which later evolved into clearing. Over the years, influenced by my previous experiences as a trainer and later as an engineer in the development sector, clearing became my life’s calling because it combines areas that interest me the most: communication, emotional intelligence, and working with people in an experiential and pragmatic way.
Lobisti.rs: How would you define clearing, and how does it work? What sets it apart from other psychotherapeutic approaches?
Desimir Ivanović: Clearing is based on a therapeutic relationship and the process of communicative exchange between the client and the therapist, which leads to “cognitive leaps.” These leaps enable a person to understand the current reality more clearly, function more effectively and easily in everyday life, and improve relationships with others while simultaneously developing inner freedom and taking greater responsibility for their actions. Although clearing falls within the scope of psychotherapy, we prefer to use the term “mental and emotional skills training.” We consider it a form of “inner fitness”—just as we train the body, we can also train our mental and emotional capacities to improve our interpersonal relationships and handle challenging situations more effectively.
What makes clearing unique is that we do not view it solely as a tool for solving problems but as a means of building skills and capacities—personal mental and emotional abilities, particularly in the area of interpersonal relationships. People become more emotionally functional, better at establishing and maintaining quality relationships, which significantly enhances their everyday private and professional lives.
Lobisti.rs: Communication is key in clearing. How important is it for human relationships, and how do you develop it in your clients?
Desimir Ivanović: Communication is the foundation of human relationships and personal development. The way we communicate shapes our identity, relationships with others, and even our relationship with ourselves. Although communication is often considered a natural skill, the truth is that the quality of communication is something that must be learned and refined.
In our clearing school, we emphasize practical exercises. For instance, we teach our participants how to express their thoughts and emotions more clearly and effectively. We believe that the sender of a message has the responsibility to deliver it clearly and precisely, so that the recipient can understand it effortlessly.
Therefore, we train participants in our practical workshops to develop the necessary sensitivity and communication dynamics to ensure the message is clear and easily understood. Practical exercises include simulations of everyday situations, working on speech tone and rhythm, as well as introspective techniques such as meditation. These exercises help uncover and correct chronic communication errors, enabling people to connect better with themselves and others.
All of this enhances the practice of clearing, helping our students and clients develop an authentic and effective communication style.
Lobisti.rs: Clearing is often seen as a bridge between different professions. How do you view it in this context?
Desimir Ivanović: Clearing is a universal method that naturally integrates into various professions. Doctors, psychologists, educators, and especially managers can use clearing to enhance their professional skills. The method naturally complements their existing knowledge.
In France, for example, clearing is recognized as a branch of psychotherapy. However, thanks to my experience in the business world and martial arts, I often present clearing as a form and practice of training mental and emotional abilities. It provides numerous practical tools for personal and professional development. It is particularly useful in professions aimed at providing psychosocial and healthcare support, as it helps strengthen empathy, communication, and emotional stability.
Lobisti.rs: You also work with business professionals. How can clearing contribute to their success?
Desimir Ivanović: Clearing can significantly contribute to the success of business professionals, especially those facing high levels of stress, demanding situations, and the need to make quick decisions. This method helps them manage themselves and their environment more easily and effectively.
We place special focus on communication skills—how leaders can efficiently lead teams, resolve conflicts, and inspire those around them. We work on practical exercises and training tailored to specific business challenges, which allows our clients to achieve higher work efficiency and functional relationships in a professional setting.
Lobisti.rs: Is money a means of communication?
Desimir Ivanović: Yes, money behaves toward us in the same way we behave toward other people. Every business has two key aspects: first, the quality of the product or service offered, and second, the way we communicate about that product. How many people learn about our product directly depends on our communication, and in that sense, communication is closely tied to money. If we master communication techniques, personal presentation, and the promotion of our product or service, we will be able to improve sales.
Money is a very interesting topic. We all deal with money daily, but usually from a superficial perspective—giving, taking, earning, spending, paying bills. However, when we explore the essence of money more deeply during workshops, we realize that it is not just an economic category but also connected to our spiritual lives. For example, while researching the origin of money, I concluded that it did not emerge as an economic tool but as a connection between our distant ancestors and divine forces.
In those earliest times, a kind of priest or shaman appeared as the first profession because people sought deeper understanding and alignment with natural (divine) forces, on which their lives and survival largely depended. For sacrificial rituals, shamans were brought certain animals, and in exchange, they gave symbolic items or “badges,” which can be considered the earliest form of money. Therefore, money did not originate as an economic entity but as a means of connecting with the divine.
We define money as a medium we receive in exchange for our spent time and energy. Ideally, the purpose of money is not merely wealth but to allow us not to give up what is truly important to us and not to do things we don’t want to or consider unethical just for money. In this sense, when we have a healthy relationship with money, it becomes a tool that serves us rather than us serving it.
In our workshops, we explore money from multiple perspectives, including the impact of social origins and how previous generations viewed money. Understanding these transgenerational lessons enables us to make conscious choices about how we want to relate to money.
Lobisti.rs: Your approach highlights a deep connection between personal development and social relationships. You mentioned a transgenerational approach, which sounds very intriguing. How does transgenerational dynamics manifest in the context of money, and how do you address it through clearing?
Desimir Ivanović: Transgenerational dynamics permeate all key aspects of our lives, including our relationship with money, as money symbolizes our relationship with values, security, and personal boundaries. In clearing, we analyze this through experiences and attitudes inherited from the family, whether through explicit messages—such as “money is dirty” or “money comes only through hard work”—or through implicit behavioral patterns, like an atmosphere of stress surrounding finances. For instance, if someone grew up in a family where money was a source of stress, they might develop unconscious anxiety about it, even if they now have stable income. Through clearing, we work on bringing these patterns to consciousness. When a client recognizes these unconscious influences and understands the roots of their patterns, they become capable of rationally evaluating and redefining them. By breaking free from these ingrained beliefs, a person not only changes their personal relationship with money but also positively influences and transforms family dynamics, as they cease passing these patterns onto future generations. This has a profound and far-reaching effect—people are not only working on themselves but also impacting their families, their descendants, and the broader social environment.
Lobisti.rs: You mentioned that through work with money, people gain awareness of their values and talents. Do you believe that awareness of one’s potential can transform a person’s life, not just financially but in a broader sense?
Desimir Ivanović: Absolutely. When a person becomes aware of their talents, they not only better understand what they can offer to the world but also gain greater confidence and motivation to take responsibility for their decisions. In clearing, we often use the metaphor of gold—just as gold is scattered in nature, usually in the form of fine dust, and requires careful and patient searching and refining, so too are our talents often hidden and require effort to uncover and develop. It takes dedication to recognize, refine, and shape them into something valuable for others. When a person discovers this inner value, everything changes—the way they approach work, how they communicate, and even how they build relationships. People become more aware not only of their goals but also of the means to achieve them, including money. In this way, financial stability becomes a result of inner balance and clarity, not just material success. When people align their goals with their values and talents, they become capable of living a more fulfilled and authentic life.
Lobisti.rs: Considering that you have worked worldwide, how do you evaluate the attitude toward money in different cultures? Does the approach to money in Serbia differ from that in other countries?
Desimir Ivanović: The attitude toward money varies significantly across cultures. For example, in America, there is a pronounced sense of individualism and an approach that supports entrepreneurial spirit—money is perceived as a tool for achieving personal goals and independence. In France, where I spent many years, there is a balance between individual and societal needs, but the attitude toward money is often tied to the broader cultural context, such as art, philosophy, and quality of life.
In Serbia, it is noticeable that we still carry traces of collective traumas from past decades—economic crises, sanctions, and social changes. This has created a certain level of insecurity and often an ambivalent attitude toward money. On one hand, many see it as a crucial value for survival, while on the other, there is often a moral dilemma and prejudice toward success or wealth.
Clearing plays an extremely important role here, as it helps people recognize and separate inherited patterns from their own beliefs. When a person frees their mind from collective fears and unconscious beliefs and prejudices, they become capable of building a healthy and conscious relationship with money, aligned with their own values and life goals.
Lobisti.rs: The name of your concept, Diada, is intriguing at first mention. What does this word symbolize, and how did you come up with it?
Desimir Ivanović: Diada is a Greek word that can be freely interpreted as “the combined power of two people.” In this context, the mystique of Diada lies in the fact that when two people unite, an energetic leap occurs that surpasses the sum of their individual energies. This principle is similar to Christ’s statement: “Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them,” which implies that unity creates a new, elevated potential.
In our business, this “energetic leap” manifests through increased awareness. The essence of our work is to help people gain insight – that famous “aha!” experience. When awareness of a problem expands, we reach a place from which we can make decisions that shape our life and move us forward.
Ivo Andrić spoke of “empty innocences,” which refers to people who often did not choose their own path but were pushed into various events. We all strive for self-realization – a process in which we realize our potential by using the talents we have. Targora said: “Be happy that you were born as a human and don’t be so foolish not to take advantage of the opportunity it offers you.”
In our philosophy, awareness plays a key role in personal development. We believe that growth and progress are not possible without others because development occurs through relationships with people. The quality of our relationships directly affects our progress. For example, when a client comes for a session, they often begin by talking about their relationships – with parents, partners, colleagues. It is only when they realize the role they play in those relationships that the “leap” in awareness happens, enabling them to focus on themselves and make better decisions.
As we progress, we ask questions about our identity, goals, and direction in life. Ethics and guilt become an important factor because we are faced with the question of how to live correctly. In this process, personal mistakes and failures become an important tool for building personal ethics. Through understanding mistakes and making responsible decisions, we gradually cultivate our own personal and professional ethics.
Psychotherapy differs from religion because it does not impose universal rules that apply to the whole “tribe,” but allows each individual to develop their own personal ethics. Every person makes decisions based on their own conscience and responsibility. Thus, through working on ourselves, we not only free our minds from the burden of past mistakes but also learn to make free, thoughtful, and responsible decisions in line with the present time and circumstances.
In this process, intuition plays an important role. Although it is not always scientifically explained, intuition helps us make decisions that align with our inner sense. In the end, life is a series of decisions that guide us through a labyrinth of challenges, and the right path is found through the harmony between rational and intuitive thinking.
Lobisti.rs: You mentioned that progress in life happens through relationships with others. How crucial are these relationships for personal development?
Desimir Ivanović: Relationships are essential for personal development. You cannot progress in life if you are isolated, alone. Through interaction with others, we come to a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world around us. Relationships are actually mirrors – first, we see what is wrong in our environment, and then we realize that we ourselves contribute to it. In our work with clients, we often start by analyzing their relationships: “Me and my father, mother, spouse, boss…” Only when we shed light on these dynamics does the client ask the key question: “Where am I in all of this?” That’s when the leap in consciousness occurs. This is the second level of our work – understanding ourselves within relationships and making ethical and responsible decisions. Finally, we reach the third layer – the issue of shame and guilt, which are deeply rooted in each of us.
Lobisti.rs: Guilt seems to be a central theme in many human dilemmas. How do you address this phenomenon in your work?
Desimir Ivanović: Guilt is a powerful internal mechanism. On the one hand, it reminds us of the mistakes we make, and on the other hand, it can block us. People often choose passivity out of fear of making mistakes – they sit in front of the TV, follow the lives of others, and avoid making their own decisions. Our approach is for people to realize that mistakes are not the end of the world but opportunities for personal growth.
Just as the church throughout history channeled the energy of guilt to build grand structures like the Strasbourg Cathedral, we try to direct that energy toward building personal ethics. The difference is that psychotherapy gives each individual the freedom to build their own value system. This, of course, is risky because freedom requires responsibility.
Lobisti.rs: How do you guide clients to overcome blockages and make better decisions?
Desimir Ivanović: The goal is freedom in the present moment. Many of us are led by subconscious forces – past experiences, shame, fear. We work on making these influences conscious and freeing the client to see reality as it is, here and now. This is not easy, as we often rely on intuition, which, although not fully scientifically explained, plays a significant role in decision-making. A simple example is the intuitive “yes” or “no” that our body sends us. Prince Mihailo, for instance, according to some historians, did not listen to his intuition, the “sign,” when the horses refused to go toward Topčider. His predecessor, Prince Miloš, with more life experience, would not have ignored such a sign. Intuition often shows us the right path, but we ignore it in favor of rational thinking. Our work focuses on restoring trust in our entire system: mind, heart, body, intuition, in order to make better and more responsible decisions.
Lobisti.rs: You are known for your interdisciplinary approach to topics that are often separated in contemporary discourse – science, religion, and spirituality. Can you explain the basic differences between these areas?
Desimir Ivanović: The key is understanding that these three areas are complementary, not opposed. Science deals with rational investigation of the material world, using tools like mathematics, logic, and experiments. Its purpose is to improve the quality of life through technological and social progress – from better healthcare to more comfortable living conditions. However, science does not deal with questions about God or the meaning of existence – that is not its task. If a scientist delves into these questions, they are crossing the boundaries of their discipline. Religion, on the other hand, shapes the ethical framework of human action. It teaches us how to live in accordance with tradition, community, and values, focusing on the external manifestation of moral life, that is, our relationship with the world. Spirituality, the third dimension, deals with the inner world of the individual. It asks questions like, “Who am I?” and “What is my mission?” The goal of spirituality is to connect with the deepest layers of the self and the unity of everything that exists.
Lobisti.rs: It’s interesting that you say spirituality has no ethics. Could you explain this a bit more?
Desimir Ivanović: Of course. Spirituality is often confused with religion, but their goals are different. Religion teaches us certain rules and norms – it has a clearly defined ethical framework that applies to all people. In spirituality, ethical norms are at an individual level and are determined by the level of awareness of the individual in question. This can become a source of abuse, as there is a higher degree of individual freedom. Without ethics, spirituality can turn into pathology, where the individual separates themselves from the world and surrenders to their weaknesses. However, true spirituality teaches us community – connection with oneself, with others, and with the universe. It is not an escape from reality, but a deeper understanding and acceptance of life.
Lobisti.rs: You mentioned that science does not deal with the question of God. Can you elaborate on this?
Desimir Ivanović: Yes, exactly. Science investigates what is measurable and repeatable. The question of God – whether He exists and what His nature is – goes beyond the scope of the scientific method. These are metaphysical questions that belong to the realms of religion and philosophy. A scientist who ventures into these questions must clearly separate their professional methodology from their personal or philosophical beliefs.
Lobisti.rs: And what about ethics? Can science be ethical without religion?
Desimir Ivanović: This is truly an important question. Science, by its nature, is neutral – it investigates, discovers, and creates, but it does not inherently have ethics. If it did, for example, there would be no nuclear weapons. Ethics comes from religion, which provides moral guidance, and from spirituality, which connects us to universal values. For example, Professor Radovanović, through the concept of sustainable development, tried to combine technological progress with planetary preservation. This is an example of how ethics can guide science towards the welfare of all dynamic layers of life – from the individual to the universe. Without ethics, science can become a dangerous force. That’s why it is crucial to integrate all three areas – science, religion, and spirituality – to build a sustainable and harmonious world.
Lobisti.rs: You mentioned that spirituality is often misunderstood, even exploited. Could you explain this further?
Desimir Ivanović: Unfortunately, yes. Spirituality is often associated with sects and manipulation. This happens when its essence – the inner connection with the self and the universe – is forgotten. Without an ethical framework, spirituality can drift into pathology, such as escaping reality or justifying selfish actions. True spirituality leads us towards community and understanding the interconnectedness of all beings.
Lobisti.rs: How does Habarad’s theory of eight dynamics fit into what you’re saying about harmonizing science, religion, and spirituality?
Desimir Ivanović: Habarad’s theory of eight dynamics provides a clear structure for understanding our relationship with the world. From the first dynamic – the relationship with oneself, to the eighth – the relationship with God, each layer points to our responsibility towards different aspects of life. For example, if we do something good for ourselves but harmful to the environment, we are violating the fifth dynamic, which concerns the animal and plant world. This theory teaches us the interconnectedness of all layers of existence and reminds us that our actions have consequences on the broader context.
Lobisti.rs: The question of the origin of the universe is often a point of both connection and division between science and spirituality. How do you view the Big Bang theory through the lens of these disciplines?
Desimir Ivanović: The Big Bang theory is fascinating from both a scientific and spiritual perspective. Science tells us that the universe expanded from a single point 13.7 billion years ago. Spirituality, on the other hand, asks: Why did this explosion happen? An old Jewish wisdom says that the original “one” had to divide in order to develop further. This splitting represents the moment of the birth of MEST (Matter, Energy, Space, and Time) of the universe and the beginning of relationships between the newly formed individual “divine particles”. Today, through the play of acceptance and rejection, we are returning to that primordial process between newly created individuals, which still spontaneously manifests in our relationships with other people. This is one of the oldest mechanisms of our functioning as individuals, which we wish to become aware of and use consciously and functionally.
Lobisti.rs: What is the ultimate goal of clearing, in your opinion?
Desimir Ivanović: The ultimate goal of clearing is to achieve greater inner freedom and better connectivity – with oneself, others, and the world around us. Clearing is not just a tool for solving problems; it is a method for empowering individuals to become the best version of themselves. In a world where understanding and support between people are often lacking, I believe clearing plays a vital role in strengthening interpersonal relationships and creating a more harmonious society.
Lobisti.rs: Your work is clearly multifaceted and deeply transformative. What are the three key messages you would convey to our readers about clearing and its potential to enhance life?
Desimir Ivanović: The first message is that clearing is not just a tool for problem-solving but also a means for personal development, discovering, and utilizing one’s own potential. It is training for achieving inner freedom. The second message is that communication is key – not only with others but also with oneself. If we learn to communicate clearly and directly, we open the door to better relationships, a more successful career, and, ultimately, a more fulfilling and happier life. And the third message – working on oneself is not a luxury but a necessity. In modern society, where pressures are increasing, investing in your own development is an investment in the quality of life. Clearing provides the tools not only to better understand ourselves but also to support others, making the world a better place for all of us.
Lobisti.rs: To conclude – what would you recommend to our readers who want to make better decisions and achieve greater inner peace?
Desimir Ivanović: The key is to understand that mistakes should not stop us, but instead, we need to learn new lessons from them. Work on your relationships with others because they are the arena for personal growth. Recognize where you are standing in your own way, forgive yourself and others, and focus on living here and now. In decision-making, do not rely only on your mental abilities, but use your entire potential (mind, heart, body, intuition). Be brave and search for authenticity – do not live by someone else’s rules, but create your own life that leads you to self-realization. And most importantly, do not hesitate to seek help from qualified professionals in the helping professions.
Lobisti.rs: Thank you for these insights, Mr. Ivanović. We are sure our readers will be inspired by your words. We wish you success in your future work and hope you continue to motivate people worldwide.
Desimir Ivanović: Thank you for the opportunity to share my experiences. I wish all your readers to be brave on their path of more dynamic personal development, so that they can achieve a higher degree of self-realization both individually and in their family, professional, social, and spiritual lives.
Author: Emina Ferizović, owner of the agency “Eminet Communications,” Master of Political Science, Marketing, and Communications, and a licensed lobbyist.